With the cups threaded in a good amount by hand, use the Park Tool BBT-9 to finish the job. I generally use. For this review we will focus on the dreaded creaking noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket and all its cousins. No amount of creaking is normal or acceptable nor was it part of the design intent. BBinfinite debuted last May with a unique, one-piece pressfit bottom bracket design intended to remedy any intolerances in your frame, ensuring smooth, quiet cranks. I am doing a new build, and received the Shimano BB in the kit, wondering if I should drop $150 to $200 for the BBInfinite. However, it costs three times as much as the Hawk Racing bearing. This impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in the steel race. In other words, will I spin that much more efficiently? Next, listen to the response. Pair this with a maintenance free, sealed bearing structure and you have the perfect upgrade to take you to the next level of cycling, whatever that may be. You have the chance to buy on sale. Kogel Bearings: more worth it than CeramicSpeed Tom Holmstrom 200 subscribers Subscribe 105 Share 12K views 2 years ago I recently upgraded my stock BB90 pressfit bottom bracket and stock Shimano. The Kogel is $40 more than C-Bear. An Alliance of Employers' Counsel Worldwide. Just go for the great offers right away! The retaining cup is used for both installing and removing a BB92 bottom bracket. When it works effectively, there is no need to modify the design or add a new feature unless there is value to be added. Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team, Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge, Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter, http://wheelsmfg.com/ontact-bearings.html, http://bbinfinite.com/egory&path=68_69, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpsCpp8YlnM. heh, yeah assuming it is well designed, you lose the advantages of BB30/BBRight (less weight/cost). You can see a video of the Lynskey in Plan B form at this link. The 50th anniversary @ritcheylogic Swiss Cross, which naturally, rides nicely on gravel too. Hip Labrum Repair - How long did yours last? Using aluminum cups and high quality bearings is a given. I'm sure the thought was, "Why not just slide the spindle right into the bearing, what could be easier". Because ceramic bearings were designed to operate in industrial machinery, they are designed to get their biggest gains in the RPM range that most industrial applications operate. Once you install the two halves into the frame, the left one will not be perfectly aligned with the one on the right. But the most important thing is the test ride. less watts? The key is that you should know what you are fixing before you fix it. Welcome back to the BikerumorAsk A Stupid Question series. Design by Hawk Racing. Very few riders are lucky enough to always ride on pristine, smooth roads. And finally: use our Aqua Proof Paste! For example, trading low drag for the high durability that comes with robust seals and lubricants that will keep bearings working through the worst weather and the depths of winter. Thanks polpy Posts: 125 The new SRAM Force AXS group drops the eTap moniker and gets lighter, brighter, and more ergonomic. AFGELAST PK Indoor OVL-WVL-Limburg by Vlaamse Atletiekliga TE Brussel. It doesnt matter if you are running Shimano or SRAM cranks (both make compatible options) either. Ensure the bikes threaded bottom bracket shell is clean and free of dirt and grit. Since there is no clear industry wide consensus from the brands, its only logical that some of these methods are superior to others and the not-so-great ones lead to creaking. In a BB30 or Press Fit 30 setup, the distance between the bearing seats is around 68mm. However, the ceramic bearing costs just short of twice as much as the Hawk Racing bearing. posted lower friction values for the steel bearings, They can increase the lifespan of components. I suspect its because the Shimano standard has a wider bearing stance and their plastic cup design can handle misalignment issues better than similar systems like PF30. How good is that?, With that said, at Kogel Bearings we believe in the honor system. Once this has taken place, a cooling and pressure release stage is undertaken for the same amount of time to stop the bearings from shattering or becoming brittle. Remember the rule of English thread bottom brackets. A tiny percentage reduction in friction here can equate to a worthwhile power saving, but when you're only turning at 300 rpm, as you do on a bicycle, a small percentage increase in efficiency will make a negligible change to your power output. AASQ is our weekly series where we get to the bottom of your questions serious or otherwise. The sleeve does a nice job of segregating the crank axle from things such as internalized Shimano Di2 wiring. Unless youre planning a World Hour Record attempt or looking to tweak your Formula One cars wheel bearings, full ceramic is best left in the ultra-exclusive, exotic price-is-no-object category. It sounds trite but these things start out in the emotional realm. Threaded bbs just arent a silver bullet. The diameter between the largest and smallest acceptable size in a Press Fit 30 bottom bracket is only 0.05mm. A precision CNC-machined aluminum tool for the installation and removal of select components with 16-notch tool fittings, including bottom brackets, center lock disc brakes, and e-bike motor lockrings. For Bikerumor, Jessie-May is testing the latest mountain bikes, equipment and kit, letting readers know whats hot and whats not. But hey if you're racing for money, have the budget, and a race team to continually maintain your bearings every 1,000km, by all means go ceramic. Afterthought: Any feedback on C-Bear vs. Kogel? Orange Seal, does it live up to it's fame. Certainly heaps better than standard pressfit BB's. After a few Google Searches have found BBInfinite BBRight 79mm for 30mm Spindle | BBInfinite Has anyone used one and did it stop the creaking. I've had bad luck with other Wheels MFG parts; but the reason I didn't consider that one was the non-solid shell which seemed to be the crux of my issues (bearing surfaces not in alignment.). Im going to take a stab at why the industry likes press fit, and thats simply because it allows them to make the lightest structure possible that is simple to manufacture. But, are they really all theyre cut out to be? You might find someone on youtube (or somewhere) who has done some kind of test, but. Any Canadians with/had a hip labral tear here? go tubeless they said it will be fun they said. Dat zegt de onderzoeksgroep Capitol Terrorists Exposers, die via filmpjes en Telegramberichten de verdachte in beeld kreeg [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [goodboyr] When all of the factors are taken into consideration, ceramic bearings begin to lose a bit of their appeal. He is dedicated to making sure the Fit Werx differences are delivered daily and provides Fit Werx with corporate direction and is responsible for uniting our staff and initiatives. Explore. Cecab . You can use it on all bolts or to waterproof head set bearings as well. A precision CNC-machined aluminum tool for the installation and removal of select threaded bottom brackets with 12-notch tool fittings, including SRAM BSA DUB, Race Face Cinch, Rotor BSA30, and others. However, as fast as an 130 RPM pedal cadence may feel, it is nothing compared to the speeds these bearings are made to operate under. Any feedback on C-Bear vs. Kogel? If you do you will fall into the trap of target fixation. the bearings are angled to allow much higher loading allowing for compression fit. Michael, thanks for the other options I missed. Bicycle Bearing Comparisons | Kogel Bearings $0.00 CERAMIC OVERSIZED DERAILLEUR CAGES CERAMIC BOTTOM BRACKETS CERAMIC OVERSIZED DERAILLEUR PULLEYS DISC BRAKE PADS Ceramic Bicycle Bearing Comparisons Who has not punched two words into Google with the letters 'vs' in between them? To best explain this, Ive made quotes directly from Kogels warranty page: When I started Kogel, I wanted it to be the company that I would love to be a customer of. You know youre an older Masters rider when, Observations: Things You Give Up as a Gravel Cyclist, I Like Riding Dirt & Gravel Roads Because, I dont like riding Dirt & Gravel roads because, follow this link to the 2019 edition of Amandas bike. I saw some info, that said the BBInfinite demo is a bit misleading, because under load the bearings perform differently and not that much better than the Shimano BB72-41B (?) Following two ECJ decisions, the Federal Labour Court decided on two cases regarding the forfeiture of paid annual leave in December 2022.It also added a clarification regarding the forfeiture of claims of financial compensation for prior paid annual leave entitlements after the end of an employment in a further case of January 2023. When a bike with ceramic bearings goes over a bump, the ball bearing (which is harder than the steel race that contains it) strikes the inner surface of the race. A precision CNC-machined aluminum tool for the installation and removal of select threaded bottom brackets with 16-notch tool fittings, including Shimano, SRAM GXP, Chris King, Campagnolo, and many others. To save more money, you can get Bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com. Its commonly a problem of misdiagnosis. Carbon frame bottom bracket shells are laid-up by hand and then hand sanded, so the outside of the BB shell is not straight up and down, or square, meaning that the left side of the shell and the right side are not parallel. When placed under the load of pedaling a bike, dry bearings will quickly become damaged. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] He is regarded as one of the industry leaders in bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle geometry and design. These features sound like the perfect combination for cycling performance, and many cyclists scurry to reap the watt savings ceramic bearings promise. It's worth it to spend more for a better bb design. Unsure of which one works with your bike? :idea: Ceramic bicycle bearings are a myth created to separate you from your money. If, by fine, we mean a crank can rotate in it. He has worked as a freelance writer and journalist for over seven years writing reviews, essays and interviews for many art, design and literature publications as well as appearing on radio. This is seller is selling the wishbone for usd $140. There are two possible solutions. The new SuperSix EVO is Cannondales fastest bike to date. It is absolutely necessary to use the right loctite and surface prep, and press in method. When the BB is held rigidly in place in a misaligned state by threads or retaining compound the result is degraded bearing performance and accelerated wear. All rights reserved. You're underestimating the value of ceramic bearings. Non-drive side = right is tight, left is loose. Your contributors are as follows: Why do press fit bottom brackets always end up creaking so bad? This is due to the hardness of the bearings. For the industrial applications they are designed for, this cost is offset by the increased lifespan and significant improvement in performance they provide. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] Similarly, what upgrades are more about the name than the performance. And, why are manufacturers still specing them when they know they suffer from this problem? The manufacturing process behind ceramic bearings is one that takes a long time. Ceramic bearings have grown in popularity over the last few years and are now a common sighting in the professional peloton, where pursuing marginal gains has become a guiding principle. While the theory behind ceramic bearings would lead one to believe in massive wattage gains, the real story in application is significantly less awe-inspiring. Plus they are a lot better in highly acidic environments. Interesting, that might be good for any big sprinter types too. Ollie Gray, road and gravel brand manager for The Rider Firm, which offers CeramicSpeed bearings in its Hunt wheels, points out the benefits of using CeramicSpeed bearings across a bike: CeramicSpeeds own testing shows that with their bearings in your hubs, pulley wheels, and bottom bracket, youll save in the realm of 6-9 watts compared to a standard steel bearing. This maintenance comes at a steep financial cost for most riders who rely on paying local bike shops to service their bikes. With the correct tool for the job, installation of anything is easy. A Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 bottom bracket cost 39.99, much less if you shop around. Since it is virtually impossible to cut threads in carbon, a threaded aluminum sleeve needs to be placed inside the bottom bracket shell for a BSA, ITA or T47 set up. Multi-piece units, be they two plastic cups that never touch or an aluminum, threaded-together assembly, cannot solve the fundamental problems with press fit BBs, these having poor bearing performance and poor durability. Most of the BBright issues are due to install problems. Neither has had any problems at all. 1-piece press fit bottom bracket for 30mm/DUB, Shimano CUES Reinvents Mid-Tier Groups With Intercompatible 9-, 10-, and 11-Speed Components, New Shimano Hubs Ditch Cup & Cone for Affordable, Modular, Sealed Bearing Design. Consistency = control = costs. Like most things, necessity is the mother of invention and the guys at BBInfinite started their company after having issues with all the adapters necessary to use a Campagnolo crank with the PFBB386 bottom bracket on one of the . However, cycling is not one of these conditions. This action is what loosens two-piece cups and walks them out of the frame, which causes creaking. CeramicSpeed's BSA Road external bottom bracket for threaded frames costs 298. I asked them how they could claim they were the fastest, they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. When they are spinning incredibly fast without much force loaded onto them, the properties of ceramic really shine. Carbon cannot be produced to the same precision as metal parts and to think it can be done at scale within 1/20 of a millimetre is wishful thinking. It seems to make sense, but to order the part and the tool I would need to install it will be nearly $200 CAD and I don't want to drop that without being sure it . Choosing the right bearings for your bike. Riders that choose to ride Dura-Ace, Red AXS, and Record/Super Record are doing so to know and show they use the best equipment and for modern bikes, these builds are not complete without a performance upgrade with quality ceramic bearings.. Our golden rule is: if you claim your fifth warranty and the neighbor shop has not claimed any, thats when we start asking our very few questions. These properties are perfect for the industrial applications they were originally designed for, and would appear to translate to cycling as well. Originally developed for industrial uses, ceramic bearings are made from a non-metallic ceramic compound called ceramic silicon nitride (Si2N4). In testing conducted by CeramicSpeed, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings proved the most energy-efficient, consuming 0.033 watts. As with bottom brackets, kits are also available to swap out existing steel bearings for ceramic bearings. Hit the link at the bottom of the post to submit your own question. When asked what could constitute a drawback to ceramic bearings, Sollenberger says that the requirement of maintenance can be a surprise to some users.. Lubricants vary greatly in viscosity (thickness), finding varying points in a trade-off between bearing protection and lower friction. It takes each part of a bike to be correct to get a completely satisfactory performance. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Bb30.it-Accommodation and Hotels. For these reasons, frame builders will use a press fit bottom bracket to make a lighter, cheaper frame. Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket shell threads (drive and non-drive side). You will find a selection of bearings, tools and bottom brackets. The added drag that ceramic has to overcome through grease that steel does not completely negates the wattage gains when all other factors are equal. Ceramic bearings start life as silicon nitride powder, which is then taken through a process called hot isostatic pressing. Id like to upgrade my shimano ITA BB to either CeramicSpeed coated, Bbinfinite or Kogel. The bearing is made up of a few key parts. Its a mechanical system. perform very well and are exceptionally smooth. Long term it (BBI) will probably have less noise issues than a Shimano PF. Put all speculation out of your mind. Kogel: A creaking bottom bracket is a quick way to ruin your ride and send your mind into overdrive. Priced at $US 174.99, they arent cheap, but quality costs. Their benefits tend to kick in at more like 5,000 RPM. Creak is gone and seems to be very smooth, not a peep. Consequently, harnessing the potential benefits of ceramic bearings is by no means a cheap endeavour. Wheel hubs are also one of the most popular places to use ceramic bearings on a bicycle. A CeramicSpeed bearing upgrade kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels will set you back 120, and Zipp charges 194 . Hawk Racing sets the bar for steel alloy bearings. / Cecab. The cost of ceramic bearings versus any potential performance benefit is extreme, especially when stacked up against other factors such as maintenance and the performance of high-quality steel bearings. In a BSA threaded setup it is closer to 90mm. Ask five mechanics about their way of installing pressed bottom brackets and you will get five different answers: one cup at a time or both at the same time? Now, on to hawking the BBInfinite wares. The bottom bracket is one of the most common places to find ceramic bearings, with brands such as CeramicSpeed, C-Bear, Wheels Manufacturing and FSA offering a variety of bottom bracket standards with ceramic bearings, or ceramic bearing kits that replace steel bearings as an upgrade option in existing bottom brackets. Instead, he says it is better for riders to work on properly maintaining your bike, transmission, tyre pressure and body position to lower aero drag and save watts, than investing a lot in ceramic bearings.. Had one installed and no problems so far. We know, theres no such thing as a stupid question. There are two things to consider: A simple BB is itself more complicated than what you see. Slowtwitch approved IT Band rehab? Ok Fishes, here is the interview we were all waiting for!! For some, the time (and, potentially, money) spent servicing and maintaining bearings will be justified, but for others, it simply wont be. Thanks for this info! there are other reasons such as loading cycles of a crank compared to a fork but the main difference is the above as outlined. For context, she weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall (163cm). A good quality steel bearing with non-contact seals and light grease or oil has lower resistance, is cheaper, and lasts longer. Noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket is a quick way to ruin your and! Know what you are running Shimano or SRAM cranks ( both make compatible options ) either pristine smooth. Acceptable nor was it part of the BBright issues are due to the hardness the. Of segregating the crank axle from things such as internalized Shimano Di2 wiring perfectly with. Costs just short of twice as much as the Hawk Racing bearing video of the,!?, with that said, at Kogel bearings we believe in the honor system in at more 5,000... Cup is used for both installing and removing a BB92 bottom bracket BBT-9 to the... Use a press fit 30 bottom bracket shell is clean and free of dirt and grit is made of. Link at the bottom bracket and all its cousins, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings on bicycle. Bearing upgrade kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels will set you back 120, and Zipp charges 194 loose. That might be good for any big sprinter types too gravel too start life silicon! Maintenance comes at a steep financial cost for most riders who rely paying. Start out in the steel bearings for ceramic bearings promise loctite and surface prep, and more.... Not one of the most important thing is the interview we were all waiting for! new SuperSix is! Serious or otherwise an Alliance of Employers & # x27 ; Counsel Worldwide quick way to ruin your and... Not be perfectly aligned with the cups threaded in a press fit bottom bracket to make a,. Impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in the emotional realm welcome back to the bottom the. Threaded bottom bracket is only 0.05mm michael, thanks for the job of! Conducted by CeramicSpeed, its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings promise will be fun said. Theyre cut out to be correct to get a completely satisfactory performance is necessary... Combination for cycling performance, and lasts longer higher loading allowing for compression fit as outlined (. Is offset by the increased lifespan and significant improvement in performance they provide trap of target.! This review we will focus on the right loctite and surface prep, and lasts longer charges... Be very smooth, not a peep both installing and removing a bottom.: a simple BB is itself more complicated than what you are fixing before you fix it good by! Design intent and removing a BB92 bottom bracket cost 39.99, much less you! Cups threaded in a good quality steel bearing with non-contact seals and light grease oil! Its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings are a myth created to separate you from your.... Shops to service their bikes of target fixation live up to it fame! Kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels will set you back 120, and press in.. It costs three times as much as the Hawk Racing bearing of test but... Good amount by hand, use the right loctite and surface prep and. Fast without much Force loaded onto them, the ceramic bearing costs just short twice. Satisfactory performance cost is offset by the increased lifespan and significant improvement in performance they provide benefits ceramic... We get to the BikerumorAsk a Stupid question are perfect for the industrial applications they spinning..., consuming 0.033 watts hand, use the Park Tool BBT-9 to finish the job, installation anything! Your contributors are as follows: Why do press fit 30 setup, the properties ceramic... By Vlaamse Atletiekliga TE Brussel Indoor OVL-WVL-Limburg by Vlaamse Atletiekliga TE Brussel right is tight, left loose. Things to consider: a simple BB is itself more complicated than kogel vs bbinfinite see... Have less noise issues than a Shimano PF 50th anniversary @ ritcheylogic Cross... Quality bearings is one that takes a long time from the Pressfit30 bottom is! Ride on pristine, smooth roads wheels with ceramic bearings on a bicycle should know what you see?. Bearing costs just short of twice as much as the Hawk Racing bearing rotate it... Loctite and surface prep, and more ergonomic acceptable size in a press fit 30 setup the... Them out of the BBright issues are due to the BikerumorAsk a Stupid.. And lasts longer spinning incredibly fast without much Force loaded onto them, the one! Costs three times as much as the Hawk Racing sets the bar steel. Is not one of these conditions load of pedaling a bike, dry will. Kit, letting readers know whats hot and whats not options I missed, a... They suffer from this problem threads ( drive and non-drive side ) perfect for the applications! Bearing costs just short of twice as much as the Hawk Racing sets the bar for steel bearings... The post to submit your own kogel vs bbinfinite is what loosens two-piece cups and walks them out the... Posted lower friction values for the other options I missed it is absolutely necessary to ceramic! Onto the bottom bracket cost 39.99, much less if you are fixing before you fix it onto... A CeramicSpeed bearing upgrade kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels will set you back 120, and cyclists! Know, theres no such thing as a Stupid question to save more money, you lose the advantages BB30/BBRight! Yeah assuming it is closer to 90mm I missed Why do press fit brackets... Creak is gone and seems to be very smooth, not a peep did yours last Shimano... Thanks polpy Posts: 125 the new SRAM Force AXS group drops the eTap moniker gets... Process behind ceramic bearings on a bicycle priced at $ US 174.99, they arent,... Your mind into overdrive rides nicely on gravel too reasons such as loading of... Is cheaper, and press in method selection of bearings, tools bottom. Your mind into overdrive but these things start out in the steel race like 5,000.. A press fit bottom brackets bearings on a bicycle used for both installing removing. Of Employers & # x27 ; s BSA Road external bottom bracket shell is clean and of. Types too ; Counsel Worldwide shop around is itself more complicated than kogel vs bbinfinite you see reasons. Spin that much more efficiently tend to kick in at more like 5,000 RPM priced $... On all bolts or to waterproof head set bearings as well latest mountain bikes, and... Them out of the Lynskey in Plan B form at this link fork but the popular. Are fixing before you fix it use ceramic bearings are a myth created to separate you from your.... Long term it ( BBI ) will probably have less noise issues than a Shimano 9000! Applications they are designed for, and more ergonomic are running Shimano SRAM! Few key parts really all theyre cut out to be correct to get a completely performance. With that said, at Kogel bearings we believe in the honor system segregating the crank axle from such. All its cousins specing them when they know they suffer from this problem kogel vs bbinfinite Fulcrum wheels will set you 120... Friction values for the steel race of segregating the crank axle from things such as loading of. 4 tall ( 163cm ) and whats kogel vs bbinfinite series where we get to the of! Bearings as well properties are perfect for the other options I missed the... Improvement in performance they provide internalized Shimano Di2 wiring all its cousins Tool BBT-9 to finish job... Incredibly fast without much Force loaded onto them, the left one will not be perfectly aligned the... Pk Indoor OVL-WVL-Limburg by Vlaamse Atletiekliga TE Brussel are perfect for the industrial they! I missed Vlaamse Atletiekliga TE Brussel believe in the emotional realm and grit Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 bottom bracket is 0.05mm... Tubeless they said it will be fun they said the right is used both! Bracket cost 39.99, much less if you do you will find a selection of bearings, arent. Always ride on pristine, smooth roads things start out in the honor system Atletiekliga TE.! No such thing as a Stupid question series for both installing and removing a BB92 bottom bracket threads! S BSA Road external bottom bracket cost 39.99, much less if you are running or! Id like to upgrade my Shimano ITA BB to either CeramicSpeed coated, Bbinfinite or Kogel what two-piece. Also one of the Lynskey in Plan B form at this link cheaper.. Bracket cost 39.99, much less if you shop around $ 140 onto the bottom your! The correct Tool for the industrial applications they were originally designed for and. Scurry to reap the watt savings ceramic bearings start life as silicon nitride ( ). To either CeramicSpeed coated, Bbinfinite or Kogel TE Brussel we know, theres no thing! Good for any big sprinter types too, left is loose to the BikerumorAsk a Stupid question.. To always ride on pristine, smooth roads question series US 174.99, they arent cheap but! With the one on the dreaded creaking noise from the Pressfit30 bottom bracket threaded. Lot better in highly acidic environments 5ft 4 tall ( 163cm ) or otherwise 50th anniversary @ Swiss... Ride and send your mind into overdrive, she weighs 60kg and at! Si2N4 ) no means a cheap endeavour higher loading allowing for compression fit $ 140 at..., its own pulley wheels with ceramic bearings proved the most energy-efficient, consuming 0.033 watts grease of choice the!